Reason #9734 Not to Support Egypt

19 Nov

And that is, in soccer, and everything else for that matter:

Disgusting, but expected?

Note: Please log on to youtube and flag the video.

36 Responses to “Reason #9734 Not to Support Egypt”

  1. Zahari Al Nouman November 19, 2009 at 1:42 pm #

    At least theyre not racist. LOL -,-
    i cant believe they put on black face!

  2. jessyz November 19, 2009 at 3:50 pm #

    It’s sad when one group of people do something stupid, everyone else has to pay the price of their stupidity. I am Egyptian and found it offensive.

  3. Eu November 20, 2009 at 8:36 am #

    jessyz – you’re exceptional.

    Optimist did you report this video on facebook?
    If not do so.

  4. Precious November 21, 2009 at 9:06 pm #

    I saw this video on facebook a day or two before the match, and because I do not beleive in sterotype-ing, I refused to let it change my mind from cheering for Egypt. I cheered for them because i thought we had more in common with them rather than Alegria. Guess I was wrong. Now, that I see this ridiculous Egyptian Media Propaganda, which is obviously diverting the public’s attention from 1. The Egyptian team failure, 2. The Blessed days we’re in now (al3ashr alawaeil mn zi alhija). The Egyptian has no right whatsoever blaming Sudan’s security on (very few) injuries, and they should’ve been aware that even some Sudanese got injured by those barbarian Algerians who suddenly took all over Khartoum!
    I feel sorry for both the Egyptians who beleive their full-of-lies media, and the Algerians who took this football match too personally!
    Allah yihdeehom!
    on a different note, this is my first time to come through your blog by a recomendation from a mutual friend (DZA), and I am really glad I did.
    Keep it up🙂

  5. sudaneseoptimist November 21, 2009 at 11:40 pm #

    Zahari, the sad thing isn’t that this video was made, the sad thing is that there isn’t outrage about it, which means that the majority of people either do not care how wrong this is, or do not even know what the problem is. I am not sure which is worse.

    Jessyz, I am glad you feel that way. I see that you too are a blogger and I do hope to see a post explaining why Egyptian videos such as the one above are such a travesty.

    Eu, I flagged it this morning. I’ll try to get more people to do so as well.

    Precious, Hello! I’m glad you visited my blog, I haven’t been active lately but I’m graduating in a few weeks and I will be blogging a lot more after I’m done with college! A lot of Sudanese started out as Egyptian supporters actually, it was interesting to see them shift to Algeria as they got to see how disgraceful and offensive Egyptians were to both Sudan and Algeria. Eh, I’m glad it’s over and I am sad Sudan got pulled into this crap.

  6. sudaneseoptimist November 21, 2009 at 11:56 pm #

    Oh and thanks to DZA for recommending my blog🙂

  7. Emad November 22, 2009 at 4:33 pm #

    Please don’t report that video! just wait and see the egyptian viewers comments to see the truth.
    it will be sad truth but some still don’t get it and still believe egypt is the homeland for sudanese.
    if they hear the egyptian jokes about sudanese they will be very sad,but it’s better to know the sad truth than face it while visiting egypt or deal one-on-one with egyptians.
    that video should be named “idiot egyptian who don’t know anything about thier neibhors”
    the makers know about sudan the tradditional appeal(egypt doesn’t have one) and black skin(i grauntee you they don’t know many sudanese have lighter skin than them but its not something make difference just to say they are idiots)and one slang word from sudan(zol) i’m sure they have no idea about any(rotana)in sudan.

    p.s i need badly to know what you think about my answer for your question? please
    Thanks

  8. Adil Abdalla November 23, 2009 at 4:01 am #

    Location, population, mixture had gifted Egypt with influence that always made Sudan a prey for its national security.. Yes, they are a Big Brother in historical sense, but Big Brother should be consciously aware, unconditionally supportive, and humbly accepting that eventually the younger will get older, stronger and competent..
    This where Egyptians on both formal and commons levels; got stuck in developing sustainable and healthy relations with Sudan..
    Regretfully, our statesmen and intellectuals are either pro or anti-Egyptian.. while they should only be knowledgably adherent to Sudan.. and its supposed National Security.. Why?
    No definition is yet agreeable on our identity as a country..
    Bitterly petty..!!

  9. Eu November 24, 2009 at 7:52 am #

    ‘No definition is yet agreeable on our identity as a country..’

    Is there a definable defition of the Brazilian national identity?
    Or the Bolivian national identity?
    Or the Sri Lankan national identity?
    Or the Iraqi national identity?

    Our problems are not unique and parochial – they exist all over the developing world and have been historically hijacked and twisted by geo-political powers.

    Back to the video, on facebook all the comments on it are positive…

    Yes sudanese optimist what is blatantly racist is met by public Egyptian nonchalance which is both distressing and disappointing for a country that claims to be open to the world and uptodate.

    I’m glad that Sudan hosted the match successfully – and that the only party to dispute the success of Sudan’s hosting of the match was Egypt.

    The denigration by the Egyptian media of Sudan caused widespread public outrage and for the past 2 days this issue has dominated Sudanese newspapers and tv channels.

    On facebook there’s a group ‘Against Egyptian Insults to Sudan’ and in the space of 3 days 2500 members joined it.

    Of course the Sudanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs had previously summoned the Egyptian Ambassador to relay Sudan’s disdain at the slander it was facing in the Egyptian media – and the Egyptian Foreign Ministry, Presidency and Intelligence Chief all duly congratulated Sudan thereafter on how successfully it organised the qualifier.

    I don’t believe in generalisations so I will not say that all Egyptians are racist.
    However there is a widespread attitude of superiority and chauvenism towards Sudan and the Sudanese in complete ignorance and oblivion of Sudan’s state of affairs, history, diversity and acumen.
    I find it shocking that some Egyptians were shocked by Sudan’s neutrality in allowing the same number of Algerians to attend the match / revoking entry visas for Algerians – which is what FIFA demanded.
    Egyptians were outraged by the free decision by some Sudanese to support Algeria’s World Cup qualification.
    They were dealing with Sudan’s people and territory as if it were an extension of Egypt, 50 years after Sudan’s independence from a British dominated ‘condominium’!!!

    Sudan has historically lagged far behind Egypt economically and militarily – however I can only justify the tolerance by Egyptians who should know better of the concerted drive to portray Sudan in a negative light in the Egyptian media as an opiate to the Egyptian masses – in order to give them something to feel good about…how great Egypt is vs. how horrible Sudan is.

    In all Sudan-Egypt relations fora calls are made for the intellectuals of both countries to work out a way for meaningful engagement (beyond opening Egyptian fastfood franchises, employing Egyptian artesans in Khartoum, importing Egyptian manufactured refrigerators, cultivating sunflowers in Sudan or superficial visits made by Egyptian celebrities to Khartoum).

    That being the case, Egyptians as a group are highly responsive to ‘official guidance’.
    And that is where Egypt has to make some changes.
    Egypt is full of thinkers and strategists, both in the country and abroad. It is high time that Egypt’s thinkers do something about the unacceptable attitudes reflected in Egypt’s media towards Sudan and the Sudanese.
    There are 2 main areas of contention in Sudan-Egypt relations that cannot be ignored:
    1- the military annexation of Halaib by Egypt in the mid-90’s and the subsequent denial of the peoples of Halaib of their constitutional rights (the Eastern Front in Sudan champions this cause and demands that the dispute go to International Arbitration)
    2- the public relations issue whereby Egypt’s textbooks and media outlets continue to impede meaningful engagement between citizens of both countries instead of facilitating them through superficial, chauvenistic portrayals of a Sudan that no longer exists.

    When was the last time Egypt’s Minister of Culture (the one who lost the UNESCO premiership) Farouk Hosni visited Sudan?
    Never.

    In rayaam I recently read that a group of Sudanese journalists completed a training course in Cairo – before leaving they were taken all around – to the Pharaonic village and Muhammad Ali Pasha’s citadel. In the citadel one of the Sudanese journalists from the ja’aliyeen tribe read the commemorative plaque on Ismail, Muhammad Ali’s son, and all hell broke lose.
    This journalist went ballistic and went on a rant, decrying the ‘fabrication’ of history – the plaque stated that Ismail Pasha died peacefully in Cairo, or Istanbul, when the truth of the matter is that he was burned to death by the leader of the ja’aliyeen the Mak Nimir for his perceived injustice (military occupation, high taxation) towards the Sudanese. The Egyptian curators promised that they would look into the matter….
    Sudan and Egypt don’t have a bloodier history than Korea and Japan – however those countries are mature enough to openly discuss their historical differences whilst substantively engaging – they don’t sweep their differences under the rug. In any case the historical disputes between both countries never centre around whether an event happened (such as the assassination of Ismail Pasha in Sudan) but rather an event’s rationale and consequences.

    I recently listened to an audio interview in English with an Egyptian MP at the sidelines of the China-Africa summit in Sharm. Sudan is one of this MP’s interests. He told the international media ‘in English’ that China had to do more to address human rights in its investment dealings with African.
    On Aljazeera he said (in Arabic) the opposite – that western countries were plotting against Sudan. He can also be seen on youtube rallying Egyptian farmers to go and farm Sudan’s land!

    Is it not telling that the first visit of Egypt’s Prince in waiting, Jamal Mubarak to Khartoum is not to discuss economics but to watch the Egypt-Algeria qualifier?!?!?!?!?
    Compare this to Korea’s President who was born in Japan and speaks fluent Japanese and knows Japanese society inside-out.

    The public Sudanese reaction or rejection of the way Sudan was mis-represented in the Egyptian media is a sign of the times that the Sudanese will not tolerate business as usual.

    It’s going to be a long hard road for Egyptian diplomats to patch up the damage that Egyptian entertainers such as Amr Adeeb have done.

  10. Emad November 25, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    OK AGAIN, ONE more time, egyptians-yes i generalize_ don’t see sudanese as equal.

    It’s not just the government, it is ALL of egyptians, and the say that there are egyptian thinkers have different point of veiw that is tottaly not right,i don’t ask to make a hate wave i just _as EGYPTIAN- know for sure egyptians don’t respect who treat them in friendly and brotherhood way, they need to be treat as country to country relationship not as “extension”.
    In egypt we never heard anything about sudan until the egyptian government gave the green light to deal with sudan and then egyptians discover there is MONEY in sudan and that start the “egyptians build sudan” movement-egyptians claim they are in sudan to build it as they claim that about any other country like egyptians who work there do it for free,lolzzz) this problem won’t end any time soon as sudanese still believe there are any egyptian believe sudan is equal to egypt!!

  11. Eu November 25, 2009 at 5:40 pm #

    Thank you Emad for your honesty.
    You’re Egyptian? How come you know about ru6ana?
    Anyway, the issue is not whether the Egyptians see the Sudanese as equals or not, they are free to see whatever they want to, we also don’t like many things about Egyptian culture and therefore see ourselves as being better than Egyptians in certain aspects HOWEVER the issue is MANIFESTING these attitudes and getting away with it.

    On the subject of generalisations I think it’s safe to say that Egyptians think they are better than all the Arabs including the Libyans and the Gulf Arabs – HOWEVER they will not dare to insult those people in their media or to make racist videos about them.

    We as Sudanese, would like a similar line and approach, nothing more or less.

    Instead of visiting Khartoum to talk to top officials – the Ministers of Foreign Affairs and Intelligence in Egypt should be grilling the Minister of Information and devising new guidelines on how to portray Sudan and how ‘not’ to portray Sudan.

    Do you understand the precariousness of Egypt’s situation when the people of it’s ‘closest’ Nilotic neighbour – North Sudan – are hostile towards it???

    I understand that this chauvenism is tolerated and maybe even encouraged in the past – to give Egyptians a sense of false pride – but are you aware of how ‘people power’ in an era of democratic transformation, can impede Egyptian interests???
    People are already calling for an economic boycott of anything Egyptian in Sudan…

    Is it safe to say white Americans do not regard black Americans as their equals?
    A black President was however elected to lead the country right?
    What’s your take on that and how does that apply to the Egypt-Sudan case?

  12. Emad November 26, 2009 at 4:21 pm #

    Thank you first of all for responding
    I know about “ru6ana” because I have a friends from Sudan and the nice part I met them when I was in Egypt- that is honor of me after what they had experienced they have me as a friend- and also I have lived in south Egypt – Nasser lake, 100 km from Sudan borders- and people their use some “ru6ana”, BTW we use the word in Egyptian slang in meaning of (not-understandable speech)!!! That is enough example about what we talking about here.
    You just hit the spot, all my concern about is that we must as a middle east nations-all of us- understand the dream of (one pattern) for all that not real! We have to understand union doesn’t happen because nations are the same but it happens because nations can deal with differences.
    In Egypt we grew up believe that judge on others must be with “better or not” and that is totally stupid, so let us start over, Egyptians need to learn how to respect others, in such ways that everyone agree about like race-sex-age etc and also YOU need to let us know what is not proper to do when deal with you and Egyptians do the same, yes I understand there are something’s about Sudanese culture can’t work with Egyptians not because it bad but because that how things are, every community has things work with it and not working with other, the same as Egyptian cultures (the good part) there are things not good for Sudanese.
    Your example about the Libya and gulf countries not have the same in Egyptian media that because the media powered by government and the government benefit would be in risk if the media did so but I’m sure you know that Egyptians HATE those countries not just they feel they are less , I actually don’t dream about an official respect between countries and the nations –the real people- have issues between them, I was dream that we in Egypt will learn how to deal with other as human being first and then if they are friends we give extra warm and close relations while we respect their identity.
    The example about OBAMA is so good one, I’m from PA which is a state anti-black because of the people( mostly old whites) or because the type of black live in PA who are the worst example for black people (the inter-city, gangs,etc) but that state voted for OBAMA! Why? Because the color and all those feeling could show up when someone look for partner or friend but in business and important issues it doesn’t have any affection at all.
    Would Egyptians some day learn how to do that? I doubt it with the kind of people who conceder themselves the Élite of Egypt.

  13. Eu November 26, 2009 at 6:21 pm #

    Thank you for your honesty.

    For your information it’s Lake Nubia – not that other name you used.
    In Sudan we refer to it as Lake Nubia – that’s the least that can be offered to the sacrifices of Nubians – that the Sudanese Nubians got no benefit whatsoever out of.

    Because the color and all those feeling could show up when someone look for partner or friend but in business and important issues it doesn’t have any affection at all.
    Would Egyptians some day learn how to do that? I doubt it with the kind of people who conceder themselves the Élite of Egypt.

    But shouldn’t the elite of Egypt be presumably ‘in tune’ with the rest of the world?
    Aren’t most of Egypt’s Ministers PhD holders from western Universities?
    Or is it something deeply ingrained that looks at ‘anything’ that is Sudanese and ‘southern’ as being backward and anything Mediterranean, European or Western as being good?

    Funny what you said about ru6ana – you also know ‘dom’ – yes that dry, hard fruit and I see a lot of similarities between the Egypt Abanodi speaks of, and Sudan.
    But then again Abanodi would not be considered to be a basha in Egypt…

    Back to your point about knowing each other’s limits – which person doesn’t know that painting one’s face black in order to copy people is rude???????

    You might find this article interesting:
    http://rayaam.info/Raay_view.aspx?pid=453&id=33480

  14. Emad December 2, 2009 at 2:37 pm #

    I’m back, was busy with food, plenty of it if you need the truth.
    Anyway that article is very interesting because it is very real, it is not applied for how Egyptian government deal with the Sudanese one it’s also the same how the Egyptian government deal with Egyptians! Yes just follow me with a discussion!
    By the way I lived with Nubian in Nubba one year and half so for sure I know Dom very well (I love it so much) and whatever the name of lake is really doesn’t matter, if that something Nubians want so great I go with it, I know Nubians more great and should be more appreciated than a lake name but still if that what they feel then I’m on.
    For my luck I had experienced how minorities get discriminated in Egypt for that I was thinking about write a book on that but I felt it will be like I attack my country because I live in USA ( specially Nubians and Christians) I have experienced a real stories .
    Again I want to explain my situation I’m not against Egyptians at all simply because of more than 50% of them can’t read or write and more than 80% don’t have any source for information than TV !! so I don’t blame them so much I just want to explain there some of Egyptians (not many yet) want to start over a relations and believes have respect to others and to ourselves and the best way to respect others to communicate with them to understand them better, right?
    So it really help so much when you tell what you don’t like and we do the same too then with some work and time things will be good.

  15. Eu December 3, 2009 at 7:41 am #

    Kullu sana winta 6ayyib btw. How the mighty have fallen! Egypt is referred to as the beacon of Arab intellectual acumen and thought – the country that produced Shawqi and Alraf3i and Mahfouz has as much knowledge of the world as Middle America?! This is a serious problem for your country. That being the case intellectuals on both sides of the border promise to engage in meaningful dialogue and never do. At least we’re agreed that there’s more to our relations than moth-eaten sugar coated slogans and there is not enough engagement or interest on the Egyptian side.

  16. Mohamed Aboul Eneen December 5, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    I’m egyptain male , born in alexandria, grown up in kwait, and working nowadays overthere, the video is really stupid…, annoying ..and it bothered me so much.., Really it is the art of Stupidness
    1) No man/women created them selves
    2) No body can evaluate any one based on his/here outside features
    3) Sayedna “Belal enb Rabah”,
    ….Opera , Neowmy , …Nelson Mandella , Barak Obama, ….. … Ahmed Zaky…, Ahmed el kass, ….Anwar el Sadaat…..etc.
    4) For all Sudanes borthers and sisters don’t listen to such a foolish behaviours…

    * My best friends from Sudan , Aswan…
    * My Honeymoon was in Aswan …closed to Sudan..
    * My Gradiuation Project was Irrigation “Toshka”..also involve Sudan

    I can tell you more and more ..and more. for me
    when I found someone with dark skin I feel Safe and I feel he is kind , nice and friendly. don’t ask my why…it’s an inner emotions
    this was not only my emotions a lot my friends have the same case

  17. Eu December 5, 2009 at 1:18 pm #

    OK so WHY does the media in your country CONTINUE to show Sudanese people in a negative light from the days of Ismail Yaseen to Hineidy today???????????????????????????????????????????????

  18. Emad December 5, 2009 at 5:16 pm #

    The respond written by mr aboul eneen is the answer for your question about why Egyptians treat and show Sudanese in media in that harm racism way!
    I have to explain from my Owen experience the idea he talked about that he loves _i know he meant the good things and never mean any bad things_ blacks and said(when I found someone with dark skin I feel Safe and I feel he is kind , nice and friendly. don’t ask my why…it’s an inner emotions) so that is it ,he loves them because they are black it is the same when you love kids because they are cute and it is the other side from hate because of race, do you got it? Sudanese in Egyptian mind are those who are naïve and cute but not partners not equal simply not just people!
    Then no surprise when you hear an Egyptian said I love Sudanese even that I HAVE A SUDANESE friend like it is a gift for Sudanese!
    Just to explain I have the Egyptian nationality and love Egypt but what the COUNTRY Egypt now is not my country it’s a country for rich and elite not for me.
    I don’t mean by anything to make you hate Egyptians , I just want to explain how deep is the problem and maybe some Egyptian can see it –most maybe all don’t see anything wrong happening- so then maybe –hopefully- will be a start to fix that and change for better.
    Thanks for the EID greetings

  19. Eu December 6, 2009 at 8:29 pm #

    Personally I don’t really care what individual Egyptians think.

    That is not the issue, people are free to think as they please.

    HOWEVER they should expect repurcussions when these opinions become manifested in public statements and actions – as has been the case with the Sudanese backlash that we are witnessing.

    Stereotypes exist everwhere and the issue isn’t proving or disproving them – or individual Egyptians saying their best friend is Sudanese.

    The issue is with the Egyptian media and the attitudes of Egyptians towards their media’s negative portrayal of Sudanese people.

    FYI we also have very negative stereotypes that we associate with Egyptians and I’ll list some of them:

    Egyptians are slovenly

    Egyptians are untrustworthy

    Egyptians have no moral boundaries (sexual or otherwise) when there is a material gain on the cards

    Egyptians have bad hygiene habits

    Egyptians are cheats

    Egyptians are gluttonous, cheap and stingy

    Notwithstanding our negative stereotypes towards Egyptians we wouldn’t accept our media insulting them for no reason.
    We have stereotypes regarding Ethiopians, however we don’t accept their denigration in our media.

    Stereotypes exist everywhere – why is it so hard for Egyptians to admit that there is a serious problem with the way their media deals with Sudan and the Sudanese?

  20. Emad December 9, 2009 at 2:40 pm #

    Well that is simple question need a simple answer
    Why it is so hard for Egyptians to admit that there is a serious problem with the way their media deals with Sudan and the Sudanese?
    1-because Egyptians in general don’t see anything wrong with that.
    2-because there will be any benefit lose when that happen, I mean what Egyptians will lose when Sudanese feel angry? That how Egyptians deal with things and with people too.
    3-media does that- especially in comic movies –because they know people will laugh so it is a common idea in Egyptians mind-make fun about our naïve neighbors –
    4-because the Sudanese don’t stand strong behind their anger and show it up.
    The people –Egyptians- who were standing laughing and happy when the policemen were shooting and killing the Sudanese refugee in Cairo ,the same people who were so angry because the government closed borders with Gaza!
    It is just that way if you defeat Gaza then you are a hero but if you try to defeat a Sudanese refugee then you are idiot, they are just something black and poor!
    BTW the issues you named it stereotypes about Egyptians are facts and if it’s all not in one person you will find at least one of them in every single Egyptian-including myself- my journey is to eliminate those issues which I raised and grew with for sorry.

  21. Eu December 10, 2009 at 4:54 am #

    Well that is simple question need a simple answer
    Why it is so hard for Egyptians to admit that there is a serious problem with the way their media deals with Sudan and the Sudanese?
    1-because Egyptians in general don’t see anything wrong with that.

    Now that Sudanese people have made their views known loud and clear in complete rejection of the way that the Egyptian media portrays them – some Egyptians are starting to take note.

    Just yesterday the Consul in Khartoum who studied in the US wrote in the newspaper that Editors of Sudanese newspapers should stop their journalists from escalating tensions with Egypt – as Sudan was in a wear national security situation…

    The comments that article got were angry and not at all nice. People said that when they complain – they’re told that the Egyptian media is ‘free’ and uncensored – and so the same thing applies to the Sudanese media – and that the Consul should be giving instructions to his own country’s media – thereby addressing the root cause of the problem.

    2-because there will be any benefit lose when that happen, I mean what Egyptians will lose when Sudanese feel angry? That how Egyptians deal with things and with people too.

    When you have a facebook group with 5000+ Sudanese members from all around the world saying the same thing and suggesting that everything Egyptian should be boycotted until an apology is made by the people who insulted Sudan and the problem is admitted to and addressed – that means Egyptian interests are at stake and there is therefore much to be lost…

    3-media does that- especially in comic movies –because they know people will laugh so it is a common idea in Egyptians mind-make fun about our naïve neighbors –

    The media that hosts the Cairo International Film Festival and says its cinema is older than Hollywood and claims to be so ‘in tune’ should know better.
    I can’t wait for the day when a journalist asks Youssra her opinion on the portrayal of black people in Egyptian cinema in English and on air. Why don’t members of the Sudanese diaspora in the States form a pressure group highlighting racism in Egyptian cinema and get the word out to Hollywood’s black thespians? Will the Cairo Film Festival be as coveted as it is now?
    Moroccan cinema does not portray blacks in a negative light – yet Egyptian cinema does – whilst ironically calling us ‘brothers’ and highlighting our ‘eternal ties’!

  22. Emad December 11, 2009 at 12:28 pm #

    • Now that Sudanese people have made their views known loud and clear in complete rejection of the way that the Egyptian media portrays them – some Egyptians are starting to take note.

    Who are the some Egyptians take note? Some try to take that issue against the Egyptian government? That just won’t help change anything.
    • Just yesterday the Consul in Khartoum who studied in the US wrote in the newspaper that Editors of Sudanese newspapers should stop their journalists from escalating tensions with Egypt – as Sudan was in a wear national security situation…
    Do you really believe there is any Egyptian read or know anything about Sudanese media? Do you know that 50% of Egyptians not able to read at all?
    And the Sudanese –also the Libyan- satellite channel people delete it.
    • When you have a facebook group with 5000+ Sudanese members from all around the world saying the same thing and suggesting that everything Egyptian should be boycotted until an apology is made by the people who insulted Sudan and the problem is admitted to and addressed – that means Egyptian interests are at stake and there is therefore much to be lost…
    What a facebook group will do? What is the lose Egyptians will have? And what kind of products they will boycotted? I hope not the product sold by the very small and poor sellers not just because that isn’t fair also because that not going to help anything, I think it should be like Sudanese stop use egyptair, and Sudanese TV stop buy any drama include one actor said or mean anything bad against Sudanese, push the Sudanese government to stop any projects or business with Egyptian government and be really loud like buy a few minutes in Aljazeera TV to show up your feelings and opinions.
    About the Cairo festival where are the Sudanese journalists? They should go and really ask that kind of questions and prepared with proofs from the actors and media says.

    Even the Muslim scholars who saying the Muslims are equals you know that they run to come to USA or go to Europe but never been in SUADAN!!!
    Try to post two ads for job , looking for an Egyptian female servant to work one in Sudan with 1000$ and the same with 500$ in any gulf country and compare how many will apply here and there-in case any apply for the Sudanese job and also see how the Egyptian media will fight against Sudan who ask for an Egyptian female to work as a servant while the Egyptian government has a deals with some countries to send servants and few very few Egyptians didn’t like it but if Sudan who does that oh well just try.

  23. Eu December 11, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    The fact that the Egyptian Consul in Khartoum is telling Sudanese papers to not antagonise the problem means that he thinks that the public outcry is a problem from Sudanese-Egyptian relations – which is great – that’s exactly what we want but we want changes on the Egyptian side.

    What you said about employment also applies to the Sudanese in Egypt – can they really ‘compete’ with 70 million Egyptians?
    If not then who is the winner in the 4 Freedoms Agreement between both countries (Freedom of residence, employment, movement and flow of capital)?
    Sudanese people are starting to raise these questions.

    How is it even possible to have these 4 Freedoms which were copied and pasted from the EU’s experience (NOT when it was in its formative stages!) when there are serious outstanding issues between both countries?!

    Just 3 days ago the head of the Eastern Front and 5th highest official in the country visited ‘his blood relatives’ in Halaib but the Egyptian occupying border patrol locked the gate and left him stranded – he spoke to Sudanese troops who are trapped / garrisoned inside and then returned.

    Sudanese journalists going to the Cairo Film Festival?
    No thanks…
    You know the world is a very big place and MANY Sudanese people are choosing to go to places where they aren’t insulted and patted on the back at the same time.
    2 Sudanese films are competing in the Dubai Film Festival and I think one of them will win an award at least.

    As you very well know Egypt’s water flows through Sudan – having a Sudanese public that is antagonistic to Egypt with upcoming general elections is not good for Egyptian interests.

  24. Emad December 12, 2009 at 12:43 pm #

    Those are good steps but the question pops up In my mind are there clear points Sudanese activists looking for? Such as
    1-the Egyptian media stop insulting Sudan and Sudanese
    2-any agreement between Sudan and Egypt must has benefits for both sides
    I don’t mean that should be the point I’m just asking to know what the main points is.
    Actually that situation has benefits for Egyptians too they don’t know they are wrong until they get hurt and they are lucky that Sudanese take it in civilization way not an usual Arabs reaction just hate and violence.
    The Egyptian identity nowadays is very weak and easy to change –do you ever notice that any Egyptians live in borders with other country take the another country culture and leave the Egyptian one- so they just need to know they are wrong and the only way they believe in the gain and loose , I know you said you don’t care about how individuals thinking but still the fact Egypt and Sudan are border countries and more than that the Nubians who live apart in Sudan and Egypt who are the number one effected from anything between the two countries, so there are really many benefits for both sides if stat to deal with respect and honesty.
    Any way it is about time you go ahead and write a new post!
    P.S that Egyptian guy who commented before never back again to defeat his ideas! Very Egyptian

  25. Eu December 12, 2009 at 6:47 pm #

    Yes the 5300 strong facebook campaign is demanding an apology from the Egyptian Ministry of Information and from Amr Adib and from the large group of Egyptian celebrities who slandered Sudan – they are listed on the site.

    And the campaign, as well as other Sudanese people including journalists, expressed their disgust at the suggestion by Muhammad Fouad that he hold another concert in Khartoum in the near future to patch things up.

    As for agreements being benefitial to both parties, our current government is not accountable to the people – after the elections the new government will be – so it was able to enter into agreements whose benefits to the Sudanese are dubious.

    And please don’t compare Sudanese Nubians and Egyptian Nubians. Sudanese Nubians – and I’m one of them, have no glass ceiling in Sudan. They’ve gone on to reach all sorts of professional benchmarks, including the Presidency.
    Egyptian Nubians are a forgotten people, like the sa3ayda – rural and far away and good for nothing but dancing troupes and folklore.

    As for Egyptians who adapt to the cultures of the countries they go to – the issue was not with them but with what is said from CAIRO and what they say when they get to Cairo themselves!
    A good example is that many of the Egyptian celebrities said everything was great in Khartoum but as soon as they got to Cairo they changed 180 degrees.
    Ihab Tawfiq said that he lied about the airport situation because he wanted their departure out of Khartoum to be speeded up!
    And he expects to be able to hold another concert in Khartoum in the future!

    I am angry because I don’t see any aknowledgement from Egypt’s media of the problem.

    And don’t assume that just because we’re not violent, we are incapable of being antipathetic and that we easily forget.

    This is what a member of the campaign on facebook wrote and he summarises the situation well:

    الموضوع بالتحديد ليس موضوع إهانة بل هو موضوع استهتار.. مازلنا نحن في نظرهم أولئك الطيبين البشوشين الذين يمكن أن يزول جل غضبهم بابتسامة و (كلمتين حلوين) و (حقك علينا يا سمارة)..
    ولكن هيهات..
    لم نعد ذلك الطيب حد السذاجة

    And this is the whole post:

    الموضوع موضوع ثقافة إخوتي..
    جميعنا نعرف أن الثقافة المصرية بشكل عام باتت في العقدين الأخيرين من الزمان وخاصة مع التضخم والتركز السكاني بطريقة يغلب عليها طابع الإثارة والدراما للحصول على أكبر إستفادة ممكنة..
    هذه المباراة تحدبدا نالت من غرور ثقافة الأفضلية التي يتشدق بها المصريون في إعلامهم التحذلق فقد تم الإعداد لكثير من الأغاني والأفلام التي كان من المفترض أن تدور حول عظمة هذا الإنجتز التاريخي وبالتالي الحصول على كم هائل من العقود ذات العدد الهائل من الأصفار..
    إخوتي..
    الموضوع بالتحديد ليس موضوع إهانة بل هو موضوع استهتار.. مازلنا نحن في نظرهم أولئك الطيبين البشوشين الذين يمكن أن يزول جل غضبهم بابتسامة و (كلمتين حلوين) و (حقك علينا يا سمارة)..
    ولكن هيهات..
    لم نعد ذلك الطيب حد السذاجة..
    ليست شخصيات بلا إنجازات تذكر كهذه تستطيع أن تعطينا ولو نوعا من الإحساس بالدونية نحن الشعب الأبي الذي و الذي يفخر بإبائه ولا يقف على باب العم (سام) سنويا منتظرا (المعونة)..
    المعين هو الله..
    أخيرا إخوتي..
    معلومة..
    في أحداث السودان (الدامية) عقب المباراة اللعينة أصيب 21 مصريا بجروح ليس منها ما هو خطير..
    احتجاجا على تلك الأحداث تظاهرت الجماهير المصرية أمام السفارة الجزائرية ما أدى لاشتباكها مع قوات الأمن وسقوط 39 مصريا بجروح متفاوتة..
    عجبي

    We are not going to write new posts and let this one go.

  26. Emad December 13, 2009 at 4:33 pm #

    That is good point there is a clear demand, can you post a link to that group please?
    I know about the agreement it’s my fault not be clear, I mean with new government Sudanese should reread those agreements again and fix it.
    Do you think I’m crazy and stupid to compare the Nubian Egyptians with the Sudanese or even with any group of people?? I lived with them in NUBA for a while, oh my, there biggest dreams just the Egyptian government stop make decision for them not to treat them good!
    I’ll tell you a real situation I was in it and lived it myself; if someone told me that I won’t believe it.
    When president Mubarak as every year went to celebrate the toshka project they plan in the party to have a singer –I don’t think anyone knows him, I even forget his name- and he claim he is Nubian- I and my Nubian friend who work in the hotel he stayed at don’t believe he is Nubian- and he has a light skin , after they left for the party we watched it on air and see him has a black make up all over his skin –to look Nubian for the president- yes that is true story.
    Even about folklore dancing not all- most are not- Nubians, they do the same trick and have a make ups !
    For your info. Even sa3iada treat Nubians very very bad.
    I like the point not to forget easy, that is good, from my own experience with few Sudanese guys I know in my life, the future will be very good in Sudan with the young active smart highly educated Sudanese.
    The Arabic summaries really very good and 100% correct.
    One more thing , advice if you don’t mind, don’t ask Egyptians to RESPECT Sudan in media because that word does not has definition in Egypt, just go clear as you are.
    I don’t mean to change that issue, I meant it will be really good to show up more issues too.
    I know the issue we talking about is very important not just a post in a journal it is serious issue.

  27. Eu December 14, 2009 at 9:43 am #

    This is the campaign’s website
    http://apps.facebook.com/causes/402552

    My cousin who knows South Africa well reminded us about how the Egyptian football team threw some viscious false allegations about South Africa when they lost in a tournament there some years ago. They said that their rooms were broken into in the hotel and that a pimp was trying to solicit some prostitutes for them – which affected their psyche.
    The South Africans were very firm in responding to the allegations – to the extent that the Egyptian Ambassador went out and refuted every single thing that was said about what happened in South Africa.
    And two days ago Egyptian Zedan said that hosting the match in Khartoum was a mistake, the surface was the worst he’d ever played on, security was lacking, the locals were confused as to who to cheer for and they would have won if the match was played in… South Africa!!!!

    Sudan differs *greatly* from Egypt in its diversity: geographic diversity, political diversity, ethnic diversity, linguistic diversity, Sectarian diversity and our great challenge is to synthesise this diversity in a way that creates a sense of belonging to all.
    Sudan borders 9 African countries – so stability for the whole of its region has been a challenge and there can be no real development without stability.
    That being the case, Sudan managed, against all odds, to export petroleum, to the shock of many Egyptian politicians and professionals. And Sudan recorded an average rate of macro-economic growth over the last decade that was higher than Egypt’s.
    Sudan agreed to sign the Comprehensive Peace Agreement in Nairobi, in the absence of the Egyptians who heard about it on the news – and gave the South the right of self-determination, which the Egyptians do not want.
    So – the tide is slowly turning – you can rest assured that as democratic transformation unfolds – governments will be much more critical of agreements signed with Egypt…

    Your story about the pretender Nubian in blackface is disgusting and unfortunately believable.
    Ali Hassan Kuban was an authentic Egyptian Nubian musician who had some degree of success internationally.
    And Hamza Al-Din is another one who became an international star.
    Muhammad Mounir is a thief – he’s being sued for plagiarising Sudanese music without owning the copyright – and using ‘Nubian folklore’ as a cover.

    Sa3ayda are treated badly – and they treat Nubians badly – how ironic!

    I don’t like to believe stereotypes but what you’re saying is pushing me towards doing so.
    ‘Respect has no meaning in Egypt…’
    What a sad and sorry state of affairs…

  28. Emad December 16, 2009 at 1:24 pm #

    Thanks for the link for the campaign
    I said it for every Sudanese I met, for Sudan to keep progress need to set away from Egypt at least for now because the Egyptian mind will take Sudan down, so good job for doing that.
    My point about respect is not a stereotype, it is fact, and I meant it because for real if you ask for Egyptian media to respect Sudan that will mean one thing in Egypt, that to not mention Sudan at all!
    Yes the Egyptians don’t know how the word respect means? Is it to be scared from someone or to ignore someone?
    Just something I need to tell you it’s kind of not about your interests but to show you how It is in Egypt.
    I send to one Egyptian blogger, one who consider himself an INTELLECTUAL to tell him that as reaction for what bad things the Egyptian media did against Algerians I have idea but I don’t have the ways to find people who can share it with them which is go to visit Algeria.
    As a people to people thing, I said “we will go visit Algeria and I trust in Algerian’s civilization they will treat us good as a visitors if they love or even hate us and if I get killed there from someone who loves his country and show his love in anger way and kill me I’ll be thankful for the gift Algerians gift me and buried me in the land had the bodies of great 1.5 million man and woman scarified their life for their country and people freedom”
    The sad thing he never respond me?!!
    I had a chat online with a Nubian Egyptian guy yesterday and he really makes me sad, I told him about the whole situation (Sudan and Egyptian media) he said: Sudanese were sleeping all that time and wake up now? How sad it is he doesn’t see the problem even it comes on his head!
    The really ironic thing Egyptians never talk about it that in some Arabic countries there some people in news papers insulting Egypt and they are not from those countries, they are EGYPTIANS.lol
    It is a culture in Egypt to do it but it is not anyone fault to take it
    I’m so sad that Egyptians – the ones who respect themselves and respect the human being- don’t become members in that campaign, so sad

  29. Eu December 16, 2009 at 8:42 pm #

    I said it for every Sudanese I met, for Sudan to keep progress need to set away from Egypt at least for now because the Egyptian mind will take Sudan down, so good job for doing that.

    We haven’t been involved with the Egyptian mindset since before 1/1/1956.

    Not metioning Sudan is not an option as official Egypt has serious interests in Sudan – i.e. water.

    This means that even if it is a concept the Egyptian media is not aware of or trained in, that they must ‘learn’ to cover Sudan and the Sudanese respectfully.

    We will not be silenced or settle for anything less.

  30. Emad December 17, 2009 at 12:41 pm #

    • We will not be silenced or settle for anything less.
    That is very good spirit , In that campaign it should be some ideas about what Sudanese will do if the Egyptian media won’t apologize and also it need time frame, I understand for now with that Sudanese government you don’t want to make a demand on it but with the new one coming next April? I mean many Sudanese in campaign aware of the Egyptian personality which could turn back and oh sorry we didn’t mean so but that won’t change anything as you know.
    I’m really sad things happen to be like that between the Sudanese and Egyptians BUT Egyptians who start it and must fix it or burn with it.

  31. enas satir December 18, 2009 at 1:16 am #

    i ran into ur blog lately..i really like it.. n fact i love it! keep it up!
    about the video.. as disgusting at it is..it’s not very surprising.. especially after watching the egyptian media.. like many of us did.. n were simply stunned!
    so i guess this video is a nice addition to the pile of things i can personally hold against egypt! (cause am done trying to be the bigger person!!)

  32. Eu December 18, 2009 at 1:55 pm #

    Of course we won’t be silenced and we won’t tolerate business as usual. I already wrote about the responses to the newspaper article in which the Egyptian Consul asked newpaper Editors to ‘not inflame the situation’…

    Our issue is not with what the Egyptian government says about Sudan – it says only good things.
    Our issue is that these slogans are not realistic, and have been said over and over again since 1959…
    Of course if Egypt’s leadership knew Sudan and the Sudanese things would be different.
    The Egyptian monarchy knew nothing about Sudan, and yet they are the ones who Egyptians claim as the ‘common sovereigns’.
    In Sudan that feeling is entirely absent.
    President Naguib knew Sudan best – for obvious reasons – he engaged the Sudanese without pretences in Sudan and in Cairo. Fate would cut his leadership of Egypt short – but who knows what would have been had he remained in power longer.
    AbdalNasser ws the one who allowed for the independence of Sudan from the Egyptian side. Perhaps if I were in his place I would have done the same. He didn’t want any part in the sectarianism of Sudan’s politics. He supported the military administration of General Abboud when the previous civilian administrations demanded ‘a fair deal’ regarding the 1959 Agreement. The military administration sent a non-specialist team who quickly signed the Agreement that was to become the first bone of contention between Sudan and Egypt until this day. The Dam did much for Egypt – and nothing for Sudan. We weren’t even given one watt of electricity – until this day… Our electricity grid is connected to the Ethiopian one, but not to the Egyptian one…
    After AbdalNasser came President Sadat, a great man who really and truly knew the Sudanese. He visited Sudan more than any other Egyptian leader. He facilitated the setting up of the Nile Valley Parliament – between both countries. There was benefitial engagement that the citizens of both countries could appreciate.
    And then this current leadership is only interested in Sudan to the extent that this safeguards Egypt’s national interests – and that is not a sustainable or widely followed method – between States that have important interests – think South Korea and Japan, the US and Mexico, pre-EU / post-war France and Germany…
    It seems that Egyptians follow anything their government does – Sudanese people are different.

    Anyway the Information Ministry committed a huge blunder when its spokesman said that Egyptian special forces would be dispatched to Sudan rescue Egyptian citizens…

    The Egyptian Ambassador was summoned to the Sudanese Foreign Ministry and then the Egyptian Foreign Minister and Minister of Intelligence were dispatched to congratulate Khartoum on its successful hosting of the match.

    Even though the Information Ministry didn’t apologise, protocol suggests that when a higher level of leadership says something, it vitiates all that any others have said…

    That being the case, many people have already contacted the Egyptian Information Ministry demanded an apology and changes to their ways…

    Ibrahim Hegazy was the only tv personality to come out and apologise unreservedly – twice for what he said regarding Khartoum’s hosting of the match.

    But Amr Adeeb, who was the worst of them all, won’t even talk to members of the Sudanese media.

    __________________________________

    Enas – nice blog!!!
    Nice photos, nice bit on Rashid Diab centre!
    I still haven’t been – next time I’m in Sudan in-sha-Allah

    We all feel the same way – stunned and disgusted!

    But I’m saying this isn’t just about the football.

    The Egyptian media treats anything that is Sudanese or remotely connected to Sudan ‘superficially’.

    There are so many examples of blatant ‘racism’ in Egyptian films.

    I refuse to believe that people with the experience of Adel Imam in a country that has produced Shahin and claims to be older than Hollywood in film years, do not know this is ‘wrong’ and offensive!

    I liken the way the Egyptian media treats anything Sudanese to being insulted and patted on the back at the same time.

    The strange thing is that a lot of Sudanese people like Egypt, my family were there in Ramadan and had a great time. I like it, although I haven’t stayed there as an adult for a long period of time. I was neutral going into the match and actually though the Egyptian team might go further than the Algerian team if they get to the World Cup… And I also said that the players had nothing to do with the ruckus…
    After the media attack on Sudan I was happy Algeria won and my feelings were reconfirmed when I read an interview with Egyptian Zedan where he said the grass at Mirreikh Stadium was the worst he played on in his life and security was lacking and the match should have been played in Accra or South Africa!!!
    Then my cousin reminded me of the allegations the Egyptian team threw South Africa’s way a couple of years back when they had a tough loss in South Africa. They said their rooms were broken into (security) and a pimp was trying to solicit prostitutes for them – which was unfair and affected their psyche!

    As for those artists who insulted us I think that not one of them should be hosted by a Sudanese channel, or allowed to perform in Sudan again! Biting the hand that welcomed them like dogs!

    The good thing is that all the Sudanese were outraged, and spoke out, and continue to do so.

    No more racism in Egyptian films and drama.

    We will not accept sugar-coated, moth-eaten slogans.

    We want aknowledgement of the problem and evidence of change.

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/12/03/the_soccer_wars

  33. sudaneseoptimist March 22, 2010 at 2:53 pm #

    Yay, Enas! Thanks I’m glad you love my blog. And I’m SO done being the bigger person!

  34. brian aka (AA) June 18, 2010 at 6:03 am #

    The arab world have a long way to go in regards to tolerance to others. I have heard many things about egyptian intolerance but this is the ultimate stupidity, i hppe the american government stop giving money to this ungrateful bunch, which comes from my taxes unforunately.

  35. Harland Petersik August 9, 2011 at 3:55 am #

    Fantastic site. Lots of useful info here. I’m sending it to several friends ans also sharing in delicious. And naturally, thanks for your effort!

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  1. Interesting Discussions to Follow | Chocolate Mints In a Jar - December 3, 2009

    […] Optimist posted a very racist video made by Egyptians and called it Reason Number 9734 Not to support the Egypt.  I found the video annoying and stupid.  I had never given Sudan much thought to be honest, I […]

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